The Kids Are Alright

     There was a very interesting article in the NYTimes earlier this month detailing the growing war between the stroller-set and the S-DANKs (Single Drinkers No Kids). There are two reasons this really caught our attention -- 1.) one of the bars mentioned is The Gate in Parkslope, Brooklyn - a hallowed place in our memories as we used to live two doors away from this glorious drinking establishment and referred to it simply as 'downstairs', and 2.)the laws are drastically different in LA regarding children in drinking establishments and this is often a source of frustration and confusion with our patrons.

     Let's start with the law.  In California, a minor can not enter and remain within an establishment licensed as a bar unless that establishment is considered a 'bona-fide eating place', aka restaurant.  It's especially confusing because, like a handful of other establishments in LA, we look like a retail establishment, but are actually licensed as a bar, front to back.  By law, we have to post 'no one under 21 allowed entry' on our front window and enforce this law to the best of our ability or we could be fined, or worse, lose our license.

     Now let's get to opinion. We hate this law. Eagle Rock is a family neighborhood and as new parents ourselves, we understand a parent's want/need for more places to get out of the house with your child and enjoy a drink in a nice place. In NY, as long as a child under 16 is accompanied by an adult, he/she can enter a bar no problem. Isn't California supposed to be a bastion of liberal thinking? Let the businesses make their own rules and decide whether or not they want to be kid-free or kid-friendly. That would actually allow more small businesses to specialize one way or the other, create more competition, create more jobs, etc. etc. Goodbye for now, high horse.

 sandy huse said:
well, i do agree to a certain extent about letting businesses decide on how and who to allow on the premises...some of the laws are definitely onerous, that's fer sure.however, as a person who doesn't have (or want) kids, i have very little interest in frequenting any place that really should be for grownups only which allows the small ones. sorry, as new parents getting out to "enjoy a glass of wine in a nice place with your kids" then defines my experience as someone who is completely the opposite & who doesn't want to see or hear your kids out in that same nice place...are we at an impasse?perhaps.  if we were french, the kids would be sipping along with us at the age of 6 months on, but i really do believe that there are places that (as an adult) i want to keep for myself.  take the kids to a park & bring whatever yummy stuff you want, just don't bring 'em to my bar... 
February 28, 2008 11:58 AM

 pete said:
I am biased becuase my older sister used to "babysit" me by taking me to the local bar and handing me a roll of quarters to play pinball.  So I am all for kids in bars.  If a partent "abuses" a law like this by taking their kids to inappropriate bars then they are proably abusing their kids in other ways too so you can't pin it on the owners of the bar ;)
February 28, 2008 12:05 PM

 Anonymous said:
p.s. Whether or not I want to go to a bar that had kids in it or take my kids to a bar are other issues.  The bar I mentioend was fairly loud and "family oriented".  I would not bring my rugrats to CWC - its a different vibe and one that I would not feel comfortable distrupting.
February 28, 2008 12:12 PM

 Paul J. said:
That's a tough one. As a hardcore S-DANK I do appreciate being able to go to a place and drink and not worry about what I have to say (little pitchers have big ears...) or tripping over small urchins after my 5th glass of Rioja, but the business owner should be able to make that decision whether or not kids are be a allowed in or not, just as they should be able to decide whether to allow smoking or not. Then, the patron can make his or her own decision whether to frequent the business or not. Yes, I'm a Libertartian...
February 28, 2008 1:34 PM

 Kevin Flynn said:
If its illegal for kids to be in a bar/liquor store, shouldn't it also be illegal for them to be in a location that sells cigarettes?
February 28, 2008 1:41 PM

 Anonymous said:
16 year-old girls in bars?  what's not to like? 
February 28, 2008 2:04 PM

 Anonymous said:
finishing up (Ron) Paul's post:...and then, the bar owner's insurance carrier can make the decision of whether or not it should increase the premium.
February 28, 2008 2:10 PM

 Jonny said:
Are any of us surprised by any of this? Alcohol laws in the US are moronic. Across the board. There is no rhyme nor reason. Most laws ensure a kickback to a middle man. The rest are stupid do-gooder laws that protet us from ourselves. Why on earth can't I buy a beer at 2:15 am if I want one? No reason, other than there isn't a single politician alive today that would ever go on record voting for looser booze laws. Kids in bars? How about full rights for adults in bars?
February 28, 2008 2:19 PM

 Ashley Waddell said:
I really wish that we could count on the discretion of parents to be responsible about caring for their children in public places (taking the child outside when he or she starts to throw a tantrum, etc) so that parents and children could enjoy public places together.Unfortunately, one can hardly go anywhere anymore -- a movie, or a nice restaurant -- without being disrupted by a screaming child, his or her parents pretending nothing is happening, and - worse - responding rudely if anyone suggests he or she should take the child outside.Children are not the problem: it's the parents.  And while irresponsible parents continue to have such a lack of regard for other people in public places, all the responsible parents will suffer by association.
February 28, 2008 2:28 PM

 whateveryouwantittobe said:
I don't have any children, nor do I see them in the future, and I am rarely thrilled to see kids out in situations where I want to unwind and relax, and not have to worry about what I choose to discuss with my friends...however, there is one wonderful little wine bar that I go to quite often, and lately, I have seen several newborns snuggled up against their daddy's chest, with mom near by, both parents enjoying a galss of wine.I find it to be a sweet and wonderful sight...the thing is, these new parents happen to be nice people, who, even while "without child", were polite and considerate people and continue to be considerate...when the baby wakes up, they step outside or tend to it's feeding or changing needs, then return to their "night out."No problem.Last time I was in for a tasting, there were 2 newborns, 1 small-fry toddler, and one adorable doggie that I wanted to take home.I am surprised that I didn't feel creeped out by having the little ones around, but then, the little ones are as good as the parents...and I think people who want to relax at a nice wine bar are usually pretty decent, socially considerate people...or at least I hope.I think the owners of CWC should follow their instincts...with the evolution of their shop and their new family, it is obvious that our generation doesn't want to be some shut-in-parent-group.If they are comfortable with people bringing in their little ones, then that is how it should be...maybe there should be certain hours where it's good to bring the kids...nothing's worse than being around a cranky kid after 8pm who is bored and sleepy and wants to go home...maybe leave the post 9pm time to adults only. Let the owners decide. 
February 28, 2008 3:00 PM

 (Ron) Paul J said:
That's a great idea, seriously. If you could make your own policy as a business owner John and Jen could designate certain nights for parents with small children who need to get out and have a drink. They could call it Wine and Whine Wednesdays...
February 28, 2008 5:33 PM

 michael b said:
My kid's getting ready for bed by 8pm, so the chances I'm gonna be out drinking with him while others are trying to have an adult evening are pretty slim. What I'd like to be able to do without apology is walk into CWC in the middle of the day with my son to buy a bottle or two of wine. I would fully support changing the law to allow business owners to set their own rules. And I'd be completely fine with CWC setting certain hours or nights as "adults only."
February 29, 2008 12:02 AM

 Anonymous said:
HI, Michael.  You can walk in and buy a bottle of wine.  The law is 'enter and remain', so we always allow adults to shop with their kids at CoWineCo, you just can't hang out and have glasses of wine.  - John
February 29, 2008 1:31 PM

 angelica sias said:
i don't have kids but i don't see why there's a reason to keep the kids out of the wine tasting room. seeing as the shop isn't really a "bar" and more of a retail place, i don't see why there is any reason to not allow it. i mean, they let kids into starbeezy (starbucks) and let's face it, hopping your kid up on sugar and c affeine is waaaaay worse than bringing them to a wine tasting establishment or restaurant with alcohol around. i think it also shows kids that wine and/or alcohol can be enjoyed for it's own sake and not just dub alcohol as evil and habit forming. kids drink wine in france all the time, why not give the kids a little sneaky peek before the frat parties ruin alcohol for them? wine and premium spirits need tro be sipped and savored, not guzzled in the midst of a drinking binge!personally, when i have kids of my own i plan on letting them have a little taste at the dinner table.
February 29, 2008 2:04 PM

 Patrick Llerena said:
I went you your blog here after chatting with you on the phone today.  Interesting discussion here.  My family was just featured in an AP-syndicated article about children and wine: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/fea/taste/stories/0211dnliv_wineappreciation.b5b70a28.html(Please excuse the first lame misquote; reporters often synthesize conversations into their own words!)I'm not suggesting by any means that CWC allow even parents to give their kids any wine in the store.  However, I think that this article adds to the conversation.
March 5, 2008 3:01 PM

Name:


Your Web Page:




Word Verification: